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Sports Area

Sports facilities at Las Terrazas

Which sports facilities would you like to see developed at Las Terrazas de la Torre sports area?

Petanque/Boules
30
12%
Lawn bowls
22
8%
Badminton
10
4%
Paddle tennis
23
9%
Tennis
40
15%
Golf Putting green
48
18%
Golf Practice chipping green & bunker
37
14%
Golf practice nets
25
10%
5-a-side football
18
7%
Other (please post reply to add)
7
3%
 
Total votes: 260

Sebastien
Posts: 1
Joined: Tue Feb 07, 2017 10:35 pm

Re: Sports Area

Post by Sebastien » Thu Aug 10, 2017 10:38 pm

Bonjour je suis nouveau propriétaire depuis maintenant 1 an et effectivement j ai 3 enfants ( 3 ans, 7an et 12 ans) et ils sont pendant là journée à la recherche d occupation autres que la piscine comme les autres enfants qui sont dans le même block (275) je trouve ce projet vraiment intéressant et surtout stimulerais la demande aux niveaux des appartements inoccupés et dont l offre est importante, je pense vraiment que l'on dOit stimuler ce magnifique domaine mais de façon censée et sans avoir la folie des grandeurs comme la torre voir même mieux 😉

daveburgess

Re: Sports Area

Post by daveburgess » Thu Aug 10, 2017 11:36 pm

Personally I think we should have a driving range, 99% of courses have them..

timpennylong
Posts: 3
Joined: Fri Oct 14, 2016 7:50 pm

Re: Sports Area

Post by timpennylong » Fri Aug 11, 2017 3:15 pm

Duncan, I would have thought for Boules you could play it as it is without any investment, the road section seems well suited around there too ;-)..

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Duncan
Posts: 305
Joined: Fri Jul 22, 2016 4:31 pm
Location: Manchester
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Re: Sports Area

Post by Duncan » Fri Aug 11, 2017 7:40 pm

Salut sebastien, je pense qu'il y en a beaucoup qui voudraient construire une aire récréative pour les enfants. Quelles idées avez-vous?

Agreed timpennylong, not a lot of investment required but the ground will need a little preparation. Hopefully get some seating there and a mobile drinks and ice cream van to visit and everyone is happy :lol:
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Darren1965

Re: Sports Area

Post by Darren1965 » Mon Aug 14, 2017 4:00 pm

In principle , I do not personally disagree with the introduction of a sports area and more facilities will make LTL more attractive to buyers, means less empty units, more in community fees, all round additional benefit.

My thoughts are
The creation of these will not be cheap, having experience in having to provide some of these, the 5 a side will cost close to £100,000.
So who will fund and then who picks up the running costs of these. perhaps any owed monies could be used when recovered to fund building ?

I personally feel that monies in budgets should be used to maintain buildings and look for efficiency improvements, block lighting is one pet hate of mine, these should be on PIR activators in common areas, this needs to be looked , this will also safe on electricity usage and charges. I note it has been suggested added to fees, but many will not use these so I suggest object to fee increases, any facilities will need to be maintained or just decline in quality.

Apart from the costs, the use of these to be considered, in the heat of the summer many will not be used, as there will be no shade and these sports being undertaken in hot weather will perhaps not be well participated.

other options for consideration - Have we perhaps consider cycle hire , short term low cost rent, this is a goo pass time, as not everyone has bikes or storage for bikes unless in there apartment, how about bike storage to be made available ?

Small air condition gym, with running machine's etc,
if not run as a business but an additional facility, perhaps cleaning of this could be done by pub at a small charge for the staff time, as an add on to there unit.
Gym classes etc would need a commercial operator, not sure this would be feasible of profitable for anyone to take on.

Just my thoughts,

Darren

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Duncan
Posts: 305
Joined: Fri Jul 22, 2016 4:31 pm
Location: Manchester
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Re: Sports Area

Post by Duncan » Fri Aug 18, 2017 12:06 am

I contacted a sports construction organisation with the following request:
Somos una comunidad de propietarios en una urbanización en Murcia. El desarrollador del complejo se declaró en quiebra sin completar las instalaciones.

Estamos buscando para construir las instalaciones a lo largo del tiempo y estoy buscando estimaciones de los costos de una pista de paddle, una cancha de tenis y un campo de fútbol cinco a lado.

En la actualidad estamos elaborando un plan de negocios y sólo necesitamos una idea de los costos.

Gracias

We are a community of owners in an urbanization in Murcia. The developer of the complex filed for bankruptcy without completing the facilities.

We are looking to build facilities over time and are looking for cost estimates for a paddle court, a tennis court and a five-a-side soccer field.

At present we are working out a business plan and we only need an idea of the costs.

Thank you
I got the following response:
Buenos días:

gracias por contactar con nosotros.

los precios , en principio y para que tengan una idea para el plan de negocio serian:
  • pista Padel 15.000 + solera de hormigón (sobre 4.500 )
  • pista tenis: 20.000 (con solera hormigón y con malla perimetral 4 metros)
  • futbol 5: 35.000 con porterías galvanizadas
precios más 21 % IVA

espero sus noticias

Good Morning:

Thank you for contacting us.

The prices, in principle and to have an idea for the business plan would be:
  • Track Paddle 15,000 + concrete hearth (about 4,500)
  • Tennis court: 20,000 (with concrete hearth and perimeter mesh 4 meters)
  • football 5: 35,000 with galvanized goals
Prices plus 21% VAT

I wait for your news
Not a lot of difference between a tennis court and a paddle tennis court. I would have thought a tennis court would be more expensive.

So, costs per apartment would be the following if all (1546), private owners (834), 50% of private owners (417) and 25% of private owners (213) contributed

Code: Select all

			Cost	IVA	Total	1546	834	417	213
paddle tennis		€19500	€4095	€23595	€15	€28	€57	€113
tennis court		€20000	€4200	€24200	€16	€29	€58	€116
5-a-side football	€35000	€7350	€42350	€27	€51	€102	€203
So, the bottom line is, could we add €15 a year to the community fees to build a tennis court or paddle tennis court per year or will we have to rely on private funding where we could build a tennis court or paddle tennis court if around 200 owners paid around €100.

I guess if we went down the latter route, we could potentially offer founder memberships where those who fund the facility would have a free lifetime membership and nominal usage fees. Those who did not would be charged a yearly membership fee and larger per usage fees. Those who wanted to use the facility ad hoc would pay no membership fee but much higher usage fees. Much along the lines of the golf course. We could allow founder members 3 months in advance booking, members 1 month in advance and ad hoc one week in advance.

I suspect that a five a side football pitch would not have enough funders to make it viable as it would be very difficult to actually achieve any income from it but could be put on the business plan to be funded at a later date out of profits from the tennis and paddle tennis courts. I imagine the same would apply for the putting green, chipping area and driving nets? Anyone else want to gather costs to add to the business case for these?

Things like beach volleyball, and petanque/boules should be far cheaper. I will try to get a rough cost for the materials and see if we can rustle up some volunteers :)

What are others' thoughts?

Duncan
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Alex Nieto
Posts: 11
Joined: Tue Nov 01, 2016 9:59 am

Re: Sports Area

Post by Alex Nieto » Fri Aug 18, 2017 12:20 am

Thank you very much Duncan for obtaining am estimation of costs. That will surely help to see the expenses the Community could face in case some facilities are built.

In my opinion, for the cost of 16 Euros one year for a tennis court (for example) for each apartment is a very affordable cost in relation with the investment obtained in the value of the category of our Resort and our private apartments.

It will be nice to hear other opinions :)

nicw
Posts: 12
Joined: Thu Sep 08, 2016 5:23 pm

Re: Sports Area

Post by nicw » Fri Aug 18, 2017 11:35 am

Firstly, I do not believe that, nice to have, facilities like these will make any measurable difference to property values.

Secondly, if you can get 100 or 200 owners to pay for the establishment of a tennis or paddel court then fine, go ahead. There are big questions though about who would maintain and administer the court and this would also need to be paid for. I would also note that I think the work done by Duncan to get some facts on the table is commendable.

But, I would be very much against expecting the community, that is all owners, to pay for this. Many of us would not be interested in using this, so why should we pay.

Basic facilities, resort maintenance and need to have services such as flood protection, Yes. Sports facilities to be used by a small percentage of owners, No.

I can certainly understand that it would be nice for those who are keen to get all others to pay for what they want. But those of us who for example play golf have to pay, so why not tennis, paddel, five a side players too?

I am aware my opinion may be unpopular - I have stated it openly at the AGM too. But there are probably a good number of older owners who would agree.

In summary, if this can be funded by users then please go ahead, if not do not expect everyone else to pay.

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Duncan
Posts: 305
Joined: Fri Jul 22, 2016 4:31 pm
Location: Manchester
Contact:

Re: Sports Area

Post by Duncan » Fri Aug 18, 2017 10:22 pm

For the record, my thoughts are that I won't ever use a paddle tennis court or tennis court and will certainly never be seen on a football pitch again in my life :) My interests are, as stated before, for more sedate interests such as bowls or boules/petanque and a gym which I am pursuing separately. I also have an interest in golf but am unable to enjoy the pastime at present due to a hip injury so I do see the value of a putting green and practice area which the resort is sadly lacking.

Like Alex, I think that the addition of sports facilities to Las Terrazas would make the resort more attractive to both private owners and commercial developers. Increased investment in the resort can only be good for all owners irrespective of whether they use the additional sports facilities or not.

Personally, I would be more than happy to pay up to €50 euros per year to fund, develop and maintain sports facilities at Las Terrazas even if I would never use them.

For my part I will continue to separately look at the development of a gym and social area in the centre and also an area for petanque/boules. I will continue to offer my services in the development of a business plan to take to the town hall to enable us to develop the sports area for all owners of las terrazas whether they are interested in tennis, facilities, golf facilities, boules/petanque or whatever.
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nicw
Posts: 12
Joined: Thu Sep 08, 2016 5:23 pm

Re: Sports Area

Post by nicw » Sat Aug 19, 2017 11:24 am

Duncan,
Even though we do not agree on this I very much respect your considerable efforts and your engagement for the good of the Community.
Thank you.
Nic

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Duncan
Posts: 305
Joined: Fri Jul 22, 2016 4:31 pm
Location: Manchester
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Re: Sports Area

Post by Duncan » Sat Aug 19, 2017 1:48 pm

Thanks Nic, my post was just stating my position rather than arguing against yours. I fully understand your perspective and suspect that many owners have the same stance. I think our best bet will be to have privately funded facilities along the founding member, associate member and non-member model with pay-as-you-go fees tapered by membership status.

The difficulty will be charging for those facilities that are not fenced and locked e.g. putting greens, practice bunkers, petanque courts etc. My guess is that people will not be willing to contribute to build facilities that other non-contributors can just turn up and use. Perhaps the answer will be to treat the whole sports area as a private area that requires membership and fence it off?

As a matter of interest, would you contribute towards the construction of a golf practice area and/or putting green? I guess we would need to ask the current golf course maintenance staff to construct and maintain these to ensure that the speed of the practice putting area and consistency of the bunkers was as near to the course greens and bunkers as possible. Does anyone know who the golf course maintenance company are?
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nicw
Posts: 12
Joined: Thu Sep 08, 2016 5:23 pm

Re: Sports Area

Post by nicw » Mon Aug 21, 2017 11:41 am

Duncan,
Regarding your points on golf facilities.
The golf course is run and maintained by GNK golf, successor to IRM, which is owned by a number of banks. Resortalia have a good contact to the manager. My view is that golf practice facilities should be near the golf course and that the Sports Area is too far away, which means that its use would be too limited. Unfortunately when PW designed the resort they "forgot" to have an area for a driving range, which all the other resorts have, and finding an area for this would mean a legal change approved by the council, and accepted by owners of the plots concerned, which is very unlikely to happen. There is a practice putting green on the plan, just between hole 6 green and hole 16 tee. This is near to where the clubhouse was planned to be. In practice it is unlikely to be used as long as the current hole layout continues. I think GNK could establish a practice green on the area where the buggy "garage" is now, beside the first tee, if they wanted. But until the banks sell the golf course to a company which wants to develop the golf course, I doubt this will happen. The banks will surely sell at some point when they can get an acceptable price, only a question of when.

I guess this all sounds negative, but it is meant as input information to any decision making. So would I pay for golf training facilities? Maybe yes, given the right circumstances, but I think it is a very hypothetical question right now.

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Duncan
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Joined: Fri Jul 22, 2016 4:31 pm
Location: Manchester
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Re: Sports Area

Post by Duncan » Mon Aug 21, 2017 10:08 pm

Thanks for the response Nic,

Looking at the original plans, the driving range was intended to be on the grounds to the north of the car parking spaces off the roundabout before you get to the resort entrance.

This land is currently undeveloped and looks like it is used to dump rubbish and building debris. I guess either the banks or the town hall now own it?
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